If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus in place of yours. Druids are woefully starved of their basic class features in FK. Can you get infinite spells through True Polymorph and Change Shape? Per the tweet linked, it appears that both Polymorphed cretaures and Wildshaped Druids would revert, rather than turn to dust, as RAI. well that depends .. there are 2 cr 30 monsters tarrasque avarage on attacks is 24 28 32 so dc 12 14 16 all almost guaranteed pass with the stat you mentiond. by Nearraba Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:01 pm, Post Other than the HP part of it though, go nuts. For future readers' reference: the answer to this question changed due to the 2018 PHB errata, so the existing answers here may have been rendered inaccurate by the change. A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. Can I true polymorph into an Ancient Brass Dragon, and then use its Change Shape ability? And comparing to Polymorph. Why refined oil is cheaper than cold press oil? You cannot use lair or legendary "actions", but it says nothing about legendary "saves" and most of the upper tier dragons have 3 of those. If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. What does any kind you choose mean? Otherwise, the target likely attacks the nearest enemy in combat. Given that the spell costs an action, you may not even get to take a single turn with your new form and accomplish nothing more than burning a level 9 spell slot. Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5e's version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. The creature is friendly to you and your companions. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. It seems valid to rule that disintegrate overrides the transitional form because it also destroys all non-magical equipment. By what metric are we going to judge that? Jeremy Crawford confirmed that you are still yourself. So I should ask my DM. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation lasts until it is dispelled. Your DM will probably be interested to hear what the dev had to say on this. It can cripple enemies, turn the caster or an ally into a ferocious beast, or provide you with utility options which are difficult to replicate without relying on numerous other spells at once. 3) You can use an action to change forms during your Shapechange. This lets you almost fully turn into something while still being an enormously powerful spellcaster from time to time if needed. Shapechange no longer becomes "change shape each round" but rather "keep your mind and change into a new shape". The Disintegrate result overwrites the "fall unconscious" effect for the targeted creature. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If you're concentrating on one spell, and you cast another concentration spell, when exactly does the first spell end? It only takes a minute to sign up. The druid turns to dust, since the spell disintegrates you the instant you drop to 0 hit points. As written, I can polymorph a sufficiently large rock into a Drider, Plane Shift it to the Demonweb Pits, and then have it run up and try to attack Lolth while I sit safely at home. The tension between the specific rules, over the general 0 HP rule, exists because Polymorph spells also overwrite unconscious because you don't fall unconscious when you revert to old form if the damage taken doesn't also exceed your normal HP. Your equipment doesnt change shape or size to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form cant wear must either fall to the ground or merge into your new form. What, that guy? If a player said they were going to start training to become a wizard again, I'd say "yep, you certainly try to gain wizard powers". Can you only turn into the age category of Brass Dragon that you, personally, have seen? Fully open to DM interpretation and therefore argument. Its unclear what happens when you revert: has time passed for your body? It retains its alignment and personality. This means that when your wizard polymorphs themselves into a tyrannosaurus, their Intelligence drops from 20 to 2. You're also more than welcome to link to my handbook if you want extra information available in the shapechange spell description in yours. You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait. True Polymorph didn't exist before 5th edition and is an odd combination of Polymorph Any Object and Shapechange that has the notable distinction of being permanent if you can concentrate on it for the full hour. The creature cant activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment. Now cast true polymorph on them again to turn them into lots of above cr20 . The new form can be of any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower. If you turn a creature into another kind of creature, the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the targets (or its level, if the target doesnt have a challenge rating). The creatures statistics become those of the object, and the creature has no memory of time spent in this form, after the spell ends and it returns to its normal form. by Selveem Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:00 am, Post Im going to list a few great options for Undead and Constructs here since I cover everything else down in the Shapechange section. Disintegrate and Polymorph both have effects that happen when the subject is reduced to 0 hit points. When true polymorphed creature dies, does it revert to its original form? Before you read this guide, read the Polymorph spell description on the 5e SRD. ), its going to behave differently. We also know that creatures under the effects of Polymorph, True Polymorph, or Shapechange, have essentially a large well of temp HP, which when they reach 0HP . Dan Dillon (@Dan_Dillon_1) April 18, 2016. When you transform, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground, merges into the new form, or is worn by it. @NautArch That's correct. Does it use its culture? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. What happens to the target of a "permanent" True Polymorph spell when its caster dies? If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. An Answer for Everything: The 3.5 Shapechange Handbook ( direct link) 3.5 Summoned Creature SLA Lists (indexed by SLA) 2017-03-11, 03:37 AM (ISO 8601) Spoilers. I had used it, and is one of my favourite spells in the game, because you are making the saves using the new form's saving throw proficiencies, so let's put an hypotetical lets say you transform into an ancient brass dragon, that has a +13 to con savings, you would have to receive more than 28 points of damage for the dc to be higher than 14 just to make the dc for you to be able to fail it, and taking into account that the average damage a terrasque, a cr 30 monster, makes is 28 i would argue the concentration aspect is almost irrelevant. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. I don't have a druid either, but I can say that being knowledgeable about the game's mechanics and seeing their spell lists is reason enough to dissuade me from entering into this class. You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait. I recently discovered that many people share my profound enthusiasm for turning things into other things which, combined with fantasizing about high level spells as one often does, led me to make a guide where I discussed some of the fantastic utility available using True Polymorph and Shapechange. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It seems to me that the concentration requirement would make it almost useless. You need to look carefully at what you choose, but most high-level things have Innate and not regular so expect to be able to use everything unless you are, for instance, looking at the Diviner stat block. You decide what action it takes and how it moves. @JeremyECrawford What happens if a wild shaped druid is reduced to 0 by disintegrate? If you want to support your answer as written, suggest you refer to the sage advice compendium, page 14, since JCrawford covered both cases in that SA final draft. The targets gear melds into the new form. (Taken from the Disintegrate spell) Ditto for Shapechange. Be a Quori, use Mind Seed, turn into a Frost Worm and burrow into the ground. Which are the best True Polymorph forms to cheese this spell? @DavidCoffron Cool, that clears that up! However, if the target within the antimagic field hits 0 hit points, or otherwise dies, the effect of True Polymorph would end should their body be removed from the antimagic field. Dont expect the target to do math or make tactical decisions. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:13 pm, Post Don't know why I didn't process the 'truesight' reference in the spell description and assumed it was complete/redundant. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. Does disintegrating a polymorphed enemy still kill it after the 2018 errata? There are several things that posters in this thread don't seem to realize about True Polymorph: that would likely become a DM discretion thing. The transition phase still needs a creature to make that happen. Well-treated is entirely culture dependent. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. That being said, as the above poster said, you are using the save of the new form, so just make sure whatever form you are shifting into has a high con and go wreak havoc on your enemies.Also, point of note, just change into a dragon of Legendary status. @BlueMoon93 Thanks, not sure if I can revive it; this is a good example of why it is important to avoid a link without a summary/sample of what's there. The GM determines whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature's shape and size. The other answers seem to assume that as a rule and are forgetting that death in animal form is stated to also revert you, not just dropping to 0 HP. This is just not included for no particular reason, so if you want to turn a boulder into diamonds it needs to go through the intermediate step of being a Brontosaurus as described above. When exactly does a concentration spell end from casting another one? It might just be easier to balance the skill levels between the two spells and make them identical, its not canon but we are not unknown for compromising in the name of balance. Yes, Disintegrate turns you to dust. The ability is usable a few times per day, but it is based. Nothing will happen on this front until the basic polymorph code is fixed to address some of the mechanisms by which it is unbalancing and/or subject to abuse. "Legendary Resistance (3/Day). Perhaps the most important limitation of polymorph is how it affects the targets mind. As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. At level 20, the best you can hope for is an Ancient White or Brass Dragon as the rest have a challenge rating of 21+ and that gets into "epic levels" (assuming any DMs use that kind of 21+ progression). My bad on this one, I set the wizard testing polymorph to the wrong skill level. This spell combines very well with the War Caster feat as it gives an advantage on the save. It doesnt fix what happens when you choose Brass Dragon though. Some will argue that this would move the "balance" in the direction of "unbalanced" or "too powerful." Once permanent, the spell is over. Like a summon. Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5e's version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The entire basis of the Disintegrate spell is to turn something to ash, and there doesn't seem to be anything in the polymorph spell that would counter that or stop the disintegration. Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5es version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it cant speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions. If I use magic to see a pit fiend in a dream (with the Dream spell), does that count? When do you use in the accusative case? Can you choose an age category? You do not get the chance at a death saving throw, nor to stabilize in the disintegrate case. Now, if you wanted to True Polymorph into that same Drow Matron Mother, your entire statblock gets replaced with hers, including her spellcasting traits and slots. To address your edit: Concentration is not a class feature of spellcasting classes. An unwilling creature can make a Wisdom saving throw, and if it succeeds, it isnt affected by this spell. It only takes a minute to sign up. The short answer is that I have no idea, but I can make some suggestions. The creature is friendly to you and your companions. You can turn an object into any kind of creature, as long as the creatures size is no larger than the objects size and the creatures challenge rating is 9 or lower. Thus reaching 0 HP will cause you to revert as will death. This spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points. Keep in mind that the state of the meta periodically changes as new source materials are released, and the article will be updated accordingly as time allows. However, if you revert as a All of the issue for those three spells leave the Wild Shape Druid class skill/ability open to "what level is that cast at?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but a polymorphed creature is never a "Huge or larger. On the other hand, if you go for any printed stat block of appropriate CR, suddenly I can turn myself into named beings like Ogremoch. Should they change the rules or release something 'official' in regards to this, then I would abide by that, but at the end of the day, it still all comes down to what the individual DM decides works or doesn't work. Keep in mind that the lowest level you will be able to cast Polymorph is level 7, so you generally wont look for combat forms below CR 7. Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. Wizard. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the spell lasts until it is dispelled. Right now I believe it is correct to say they are identical save with respect to what races are allowed as targets. However, it does offer useful forms that your allies can ride. The hour a level being suggested here seems extreme to me, for the FK environment. It depends on how you look at it. Shapechange targets self, where true polymorph can target others. Who knows. You transform the creature into a different creature, the creature into a non-magical object, or the object into a creature (the object must be neither worn nor carried by another creature). Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my other answer per a tweet from Mr Crawford (Credit to @Airatome for this tweet): Jeremy Crawford During this spell's duration, you can use your action to assume a different form following the same restrictions and rules for the original form, with one exception: if your new form has more hit points than your current one, your hit points remain at their current value. You dont gain any Spellcasting traits, but you do gain Innate Spellcasting traits. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. Monsters and Death Does a creature die outright if they drop below negative max hit points of their polymorphed form? Needs a friend, but how often have you gone on an adventure alone in this game? Also it has "Legendary" in the name. It does mean you dont get the full benefit out of, for example, Shapechanging into a pit fiend and using the Charisma of 24 to power your Bard spells, although thats still a very good idea since they can clearly speak and have hands for somatic components on top of a pile of other great benefits. True ploymorph an ally into a ghost then true polymorph another ally into a gold shadow dragon. RPGBOT contributing author and podcast co-host Random Powell is back with another exciting article, this time hey wait a minute, I can just write these myself. Can I use an 11 watt LED bulb in a lamp rated for 8.6 watts maximum? Random's articles include the the Armor Artificer Handbook, the Hexblade Warlock Handbook, and the Practical Guide to Magical Secrets. The lowest CR that you should realistically consider combat forms. Next paragraph: The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it cant speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions.. normal form. Note that this guide currently only covers beasts presented in the monster manual. This is as a consequence of the wizard's spell level being augmented by their character level; a level 50 wizard with grandmastered polymorph and a druid with grandmastered shapechange have precisely the same duration. You can turn an object into any kind of creature, as long as the creatures size is no larger than the objects size and the creatures challenge rating is 9 or lower. I think the Legendary Resistance comes under the category of Legendary Action, because a legendary action is basically just an action that a creature can do whilst it is someone else's turn. Easily manage polymorph, true polymorph, animals shapes, shapechange, NPC shapechanger, and wild shape all from your character sheet with the click of a button; When activated, a new character sheet is opened automatically with your new shape's features & abilities; The combat tracker updates in real-time with your new form and statistics Symbol- check out the. Did it enjoy being used for the purpose for which it was made? True Polymorph only lets you use the abilities of the thing you change into and you lose your race and class features while transformed. According to Mearls: Mearles isn't even RAI for 5e. Unlike every other polymorph-type spell or ability, you maintain access to all your class features (including spellcasting). All of this detail diving violates KISS principle, which is why I tried to focus on the "spell effect" and its unusual " and your equipment too" detail as significant. The change shape feature of the Brass dragon says (emphasis mine): The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own. Shapechanging, Available For: Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form. 3:10 PM - 17 Sep 2015, Joshua Maxman You always have to use the material component, rather than just a focus, if the material component has a cost; not only when it's consumed by the spell. Shapechange states that you turn into a typical example of the creature withoutthe Spellcasting trait, but Crawford has confirmed on twitter that you would keep your ability to cast your own spells because that comes from your class features. A level 50 druid with 10 skill in shapechange obtains 2/3 of the duration as a level 50 wizard with 10 skill in polymorph. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Worth noting is that shapechange -does- last longer than polymorph currently(EDIT: It doesn't. You could see it as one of two things, though they both have very similar end results: a) The body simply disintegrates, and stays that way. Now use the ghost to magically age the shadow dragon into an ancient gold shadow dragon. 5e doesn't have any hidden rules, and there doesn't seem to be anything about it working that way in the Spellcasting chapter of the PHB - and if it did work that way, wouldn't it break Polymorph spells in general, since they lose their Spellcasting class feature while Polymorphed? And you are allowed more than one use of this per day. When the spell states that you take the form of "any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower", does this mean the players class level, spell-caster level, or total level from all classes. One fortunate piece of clarity comes from this episode of Dragon Talk where Crawford clarifies that retain[ing] its personality and alignment means that its intended that you still understand who your friends are, even if your intelligence is now lower than the average bear. The advice offered below is based on the current State of the Character Optimization Meta as of when the article was last updated. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit Wild Shape also comes into the game much earlier than those spells. @Sawyer that's a good question, and also opens up my answer to the following criticism: in the case of True Polymorph and Shapechange, they are ninth level spells and as such would take precedence over a sixth level spell unless it was cast an 9th level to do more damage. Does a password policy with a restriction of repeated characters increase security? Which means that the PC is now double Polymorphed, but since True Sight says . Shapechange IMO is more useful in a combat scenario. And true polymorph allow changing creatures into objects and vice versa. Shapechange only turns you into another creature. With the target creature's stats in it. Monstrous Compendium Vol 3: Minecraft Creatures. This grants you the stat block of said Adult Gold Dragon, including its Change Shape ability, allowing it to assume the form of "a humanoid or beast with a Challenge Rating no higher than its own". Just transmute a sufficiently large rock into a brontosaurus, then transmute that into, if Ive done my math right, roughly 100,000 pounds of diamond. You can effectively put away your character sheet and replace it with the stat block out of the Monster Manual. But sometimes you want to break the world in other interesting ways, and True Polymorph is a great way to do so. In discussing this with Tyler, his answer was to lean heavily on the word kind. To him, kind meant species as defined by taxonomical classification, so I could choose to make you a human or a pit fiend, but not the Diviner stat block from Volos. You can't concentrate on two spells at once, at all: ". Dragon Breath Weapons are NOT a guarantee to drop this because you forget that you can save for 1/2. You cant use any legendary actions or lair actions of the new form. Polymorph (Creature Type) can be a unique spell. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? One amusing thing you may have noticed that you cant do with True Polymorph is turn objects into other objects. If I choose skeleton, what kind of skeleton am I? Has your original stat block gained the benefits of any rests you may have had in the interim? I see your general point on spell text. Does casting Disintegrate on a polymorphed enemy still kill it after the 2018 errata? Deciding what actions the new creature takes and how it moves isnt called out as requiring any kind of action on your part, or even interaction with the creature. So a brass dragon cannot change shape into a lich. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); DnD 5e New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange, Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange DnD 5e. Portions of the materials used are property of Wizards of the Coast. by Enig Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:52 pm, Post This means that you would not gain the Spellcasting trait since the "Introduction" to the Monster Manual clarifies (emphasis mine): A monster with the Spellcasting class feature has a spellcaster level and spell slots, which it uses to cast its spells of 1st level and higher (as explained in the Players Handbook).

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